Support ZIP in BZip2 and PPMd

Ricco

An immediate wish to PA after seeing Winzxx 10 beta is out. It starts supporting ZIP in BZip2 and PPMd format. Hope PA could support soon. :D

Carlospr

Man! You’re fast! lol

TBGBe

@Ricco:

supporting ZIP in BZip2 and PPMd format. Hope PA could support soon. :D

You mean it supports BZip2 and PPMD in a Zip file!
However, other Zip utilities (including older Versions of WZ) won’t understand these “zip” files. This is going to create all sorts of problems. :mad:

Why couldn’t they use new filetypes e.g.

“ziz” for Zip/BZip2 ( or even Bz2 if is actually compatible :D ) and “zid” for Zip/PPMD

then everything would be simple and straightforward :rolleyes:

Just imagine how many questions to support - Your “NNN” cannot read this Zip file I just received/downloaded.

spwolf

@TBGBe:

You mean it supports BZip2 and PPMD in a Zip file!
However, other Zip utilities (including older Versions of WZ) won’t understand these “zip” files. This is going to create all sorts of problems. :mad:

Why couldn’t they use new filetypes e.g.

“ziz” for Zip/BZip2 ( or even Bz2 if is actually compatible :D ) and “zid” for Zip/PPMD

then everything would be simple and straightforward :rolleyes:

Just imagine how many questions to support - Your “NNN” cannot read this Zip file I just received/downloaded.

indeed, butchering of zip format is not good for anyone, even if this is an official zip standard. It makes 100’s of million computers unable to read certain zip files.

thats why we support open 7zip format.

Ricco

Yes. But just like Deflate64 it would eventually be implemented everywhere (at least extraction). Therefore, PA should support it, or maybe not in a near future.

Just like Winzxx 8.1 could extract Deflate64 ZIP, Winzxx 9.0 could extract BZip2-powered ZIP file.

jowood

BZIP2 compression method is part of the PKZIP standard, you can find it on http://www.pkware.com. There are some more archivers on the market with BZ2 support for ZIP files.

spwolf

@jowood:

BZIP2 compression method is part of the PKZIP standard, you can find it on http://www.pkware.com. There are some more archivers on the market with BZ2 support for ZIP files.

it makes no difference that Pkware created this standard 2-3 years ago, it is still very much wrong.

TBGBe

@Ricco:

Yes. But just like Deflate64 it would eventually be implemented everywhere (at least extraction). Therefore, PA should support it, or maybe not in a near future.

Just like Winzxx 8.1 could extract Deflate64 ZIP, Winzxx 9.0 could extract BZip2-powered ZIP file.

Sorry, but I think you are missing the point.
When Deflate64 was introduced, the availability of internet/download sites was not the same as now.
Since then “zip” format has become a “de-facto” standard. Every compression utility supports zip files - even Windows XP. WinZip was also the ‘control/standard’.
If a zip file could be created/read by WinZip then it was utility ‘XXX’ that was broken.

The whole/only advantage of Zip compression was this compatibilty. Lose that and Zip compression is just a joke. To suddenly create ‘different’ zip formats makes zip worthless.
There is no longer a reason to prefer zip over Rar, Ace, Sqx etc (pick anything you like).

Ricco

Thanks for pointing out the missing point. Anyway, you think BZip2 and PPMd shouldn’t be supported in PA? (both Create and Extract)

If not supporting Creation, I think at least Extraction is needed. (Yet enhanced the compatibility of PA to ZIP files too)

Ricco

@spwolf:

it makes no difference that Pkware created this standard 2-3 years ago, it is still very much wrong.

Deflate64 is more jokingly. Just very very slight enhancement made to the compression ratio but completely ruined the compatibility.

TBGBe

@Ricco:

Thanks for pointing out the missing point. Anyway, you think BZip2 and PPMd shouldn’t be supported in PA? (both Create and Extract)

If not supporting Creation, I think at least Extraction is needed. (Yet enhanced the compatibility of PA to ZIP files too)

PA does support Bzip2 and PPMD.
Bzip2 in Bz2 files.
PPMD in 7z files.
@Ricco:

Deflate64 is more jokingly. Just very very slight enhancement made to the compression ratio but completely ruined the compatibility.

Yes, but that is not a justification for ruining compatibility yet again.

Ricco

@TBGBe:

PA does support Bzip2 and PPMD.
Bzip2 in Bz2 files.
PPMD in 7z files.

I mean in ZIP profile… not in BZip2 and 7-Zip.

jowood

@spwolf:

it makes no difference that Pkware created this standard 2-3 years ago, it is still very much wrong.

PKWARE is the owner of the format. In the past you were proud of being one of the first supporter for ZIP64. Same for AES. It is still wrong too? So why not walk at the front and support BZ2 compression?

I think the point is, that you are depending on what Innermedia is doing. If Innermedia decides to support the new compression formats, you can support it too. If not…

TBGBe

@Ricco:

I mean in ZIP profile… not in BZip2 and 7-Zip.

I know - sorry I forgot to include a smiley.

@jowood:

PKWARE is the owner of the format.
…
BZIP2 compression method is part of the PKZIP standard, you can find it on http://www.pkware.com.

I am not sure - was the ZIP format ever extended again to include PPMD as well?

jowood

@TBGBe:

I am not sure - was the ZIP format ever extended again to include PPMD as well?

Winzip Computing extended the format again, probably without permission from PKWARE. I’m curious how the story continues.

Ricco

@jowood:

Winzip Computing extended the format again, probably without permission from PKWARE. I’m curious how the story continues.

Agree. This is the first time I found Winzip Computing supports something beyond the PKWARE ZIP format…

davidsplash

I have checked the formats of win***'s znew zip formats and they all open in pa with no problem you can even extract them to any directory you want. ppmd zip verion just beat powerarchive to the crunch on zips but everything else failed to beat pa they matched it.

adding ppmd would be good but the rest a fast we have it already.

i support this wish.

TBGBe

@TBGBe:

was the ZIP format ever extended again to include PPMD as well?
…
No

Bzip2 is bad
PPMD is worse

Basically, if I receive a Zip file, I no longer “know” what format it is.
Might as well give every archive file the extension “bin” and let each utility/anti-virus decode contents as appropriate.

for me at least, PA cannot extract files from these new zip created by winzip 10. does the latest PA 9.5 beta 5 fix this? or is it planned?

By-Tor

Since the average user will just download a file without much knowledge of the different compression algorithms, they will see a .zip file and simply want to decompress it. It would be foolish not to include PPMd and BZip2 in the ZIP format because the average user will fault PowerArchiver for not decompressing their ZIP file regardless of how it was compressed. It only seems logical to include these formats so as not to alienate users from PA.

spwolf

@By-Tor:

Since the average user will just download a file without much knowledge of the different compression algorithms, they will see a .zip file and simply want to decompress it. It would be foolish not to include PPMd and BZip2 in the ZIP format because the average user will fault PowerArchiver for not decompressing their ZIP file regardless of how it was compressed. It only seems logical to include these formats so as not to alienate users from PA.

where does it end though? In reality, user will complain to the sender and they will not create incompatible archive - this is why many people still dont use RAR, ACE or 7zip.

If we went with your suggestion, then anyone adding their own “zip” extension would create havoc because everyone else would “have” to support it.

This is killing ZIP format as we know it. Many people are using ZIP because they can be sure that anyone can open it - including hundreds of millions of Win ME, Win XP and Win2k OS’s which now can not open “zip”. And I can tell you from the source, that MS will not add support for WZ’s zip extension for a long time, if ever. This is probably what WZ is counting on to have better sales.

PkWare added bzip to the zip format 2-3 years ago, and almost nobody is using it because they are not sure if everyone can open that file.

What will happen is that this will force people to use newer compression utilities and this will make open formats as 7zip popular.

By-Tor

@spwolf:

If we went with your suggestion, then anyone adding their own “zip” extension would create havoc because everyone else would “have” to support it.

I wouldn’t go as far as that. Basically it comes down to PKWare and WinZip. Unfortunately, those are the dominant forces behind the zip format right now. Most users I’ve seen just use WinZip without much thought. If a user is able to decompress a file with WinZip or PKZip without problem and then tries PA and has a problem, which one are they more likely to stay with?

spwolf

@By-Tor:

I wouldn’t go as far as that. Basically it comes down to PKWare and WinZip. Unfortunately, those are the dominant forces behind the zip format right now. Most users I’ve seen just use WinZip without much thought. If a user is able to decompress a file with WinZip or PKZip without problem and then tries PA and has a problem, which one are they more likely to stay with?

but they wont be able to open PPMd files with PkWare :-).
I think major factor behind ZIP is also built in support in Windows, which will not work, which is why majority of users will not use these new extensions.

Plus, since WZ will get much stricter licensing, and probably become true trial software, I doubt many people will use these new algorithms…

By-Tor

@spwolf:

Plus, since WZ will get much stricter licensing, and probably become true trial software, I doubt many people will use these new algorithms…

I’m not sure how strict the licensing is in the new WZ, but, if history is any indicator, people will just continue using unregistered versions and playing with different compression schemes.

davidsplash

i have tested the new zip format and found that pa can read them but at times can not extract them.

can anyone else confirm this.

would anyone like to see these formats supported by pa i would

By-Tor

@davidsplash:

i have tested the new zip format and found that pa can read them but at times can not extract them.

can anyone else confirm this.

would anyone like to see these formats supported by pa i would

Yes, I’ve seen the same. It’s because the zip headers can be read, but the compression format is not supported. I think that’s the whole point of this thread, that PA should support these formats.

davidsplash

yes its wrong they should have created a totally new format but they didn’t and as winzip is pa main rival in the zip arena i say pa have to add this feature. Enough on the subject when will it be implimented thats what everyone here want to know not atht it is wrong we all know that but thats gets us no where.

By-Tor

@davidsplash:

yes its wrong they should have created a totally new format but they didn’t and as winzip is pa main rival in the zip arena i say pa have to add this feature. Enough on the subject when will it be implimented thats what everyone here want to know not atht it is wrong we all know that but thats gets us no where.

Agreed. No amount of bickering over what’s right will get us anywhere.

davidsplash

its happed and theres no way point in arguing over wther it is right or wrong. Just support it, well you’ll have to in the end.

mwb1100

@By-Tor:

I’m not sure how strict the licensing is in the new WZ, but, if history is any indicator, people will just continue using unregistered versions and playing with different compression schemes.

Earlier this year WinZip was purchased by a company who has stated clearly that they intend to (carefully) start enforcing the trial expiration:

http://www.vectorcapital.com/reports/getArticle.asp?ArticleId=177

It will be interesting to see how successful they are in getting users to pay-up. I suspect a lot of WinZip freeloaders will simply stick with 9.0.

This also represents an opportunity for PowerArchiver (and other compression utilities) to make some significant inroads.

TBGBe

@mwb1100:

It will be interesting to see how successful they are in getting users to pay-up. I suspect a lot of WinZip freeloaders will simply stick with 9.0.

This also represents an opportunity for PowerArchiver (and other compression utilities) to make some significant inroads.

This may actually be the end of WinZip !!

If people who purchased what was offered as a “lifetime” license (with version 6), may have to pay for WinZip 10, do you think they will?
Now there are two choices, keep using WinZip 9.0 and “ignore” the new formats or buy PA which offers better compression (using 7z, Bzip2 or Cab format depending on the source file types) and better support for uncompressing different formats.

Additionally, non-support for the ppmd format by all other “Zip” utilities will make WinZip 10 another ‘non standard’ or niche utility.
Not to mention the problem this creates for Anti Virus/email utilities etc.

By-Tor

@mwb1100:

This also represents an opportunity for PowerArchiver (and other compression utilities) to make some significant inroads.

Which is precisely the reason PowerArchiver should be made as compatible as possible.

Ricco

@davidsplash:

its happed and theres no way point in arguing over wther it is right or wrong. Just support it, well you’ll have to in the end.

Yea, I’m tired of pointing out whether BZip2 or PPMd powered ZIP should be supported or not. Just let it be.